Nickolas said: "Historically, when a cult has come under outside pressure it closes ranks" -- This was the message from the GB to a congregation that a friend of mine attends, apparently they were told to 'close ranks'! Anybody else hear this at their congregation?
The Quiet One
JoinedPosts by The Quiet One
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140
The effect we are having on the Watchtower is HUGE
by jwfacts ini was inspired by a recent thread i know i aint gunna crumble the wt, but a girl can dream to look at the effect we as individuals are having on the watchtower society.. 3dogs1husband quoted a story to show that even helping only one person is worth it.. it is encouraging to note that the one person you may have helped has lead to millions being helped, due to the power of compounding growth.. compounding growth is well illustrated by the rice on a chessboard problem.
if you start with 1 grain of rice on square one, and double it to 2 on the second, 4 on the third, 8 on the fourth, by the last (64th) square there would be 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 grains of rice.. likewise, if you help one person out of the grip of the watchtower this year, then next year you help one more and they help one, in a few years that is going to have a formidable result on the number of jehovahs witnesses.
look at the following statistics.
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Even the Bible doesn't say that the world is about to end..
by The Quiet One inhere are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
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The Quiet One
@Tyre- Good point. I agree that it's strange.. But think about it. Without the two-class system (heavenly and earthly), the GB would have no real authority as mediators between Jesus and the Great Crowd. This doctrine, which involves twisting scriptures IMO, such as Jesus' words 'you will be with me in Paradise', considering that all other uses of the word in the Bible are referring to a heavenly paradise as even the WT literature says, keeps the inferior servant class in its place. http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/earth-forever.php "The word paradise is used only four times in the New World Translation of the Bible and each passage discussing a location refers to heaven. ( Song of Solomon 4:13; Luke 23:39-43; 2 Corinthians 12:1-7; Revelation 2:5-7) Revelation 2:7 "Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." The Watchtower identifies this as heaven; Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.576 Paradise"Eating in "the Paradise of God." Revelation 2:7 mentions a "tree of life" in "the paradise of God" and that eating from it would be the privilege of the one"that conquers." Since other promises given in this section of Revelation to such conquering ones clearly relate to their gaining a heavenly inheritance (Re 2:26-28; 3:12, 21), it seems evident that "the paradise of God" in this case is a heavenly one." 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 "I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago-whether in the body I do not know, or out of thebody I do not know; God knows-was caught away as such to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know sucha man-whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows- 4 that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak." Luke 23:42-43 is the only occasion that the Watchtower claims the word paradise refers to the earth. The context indicates otherwise and it is generally accepted that this scripture refers to heaven."
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What % of each JW talk do the dubs listen to?
by highdose innot sure how long the sunday sermon is now, maybe 30 mins?
how much of that are people listening to?.
the kh is stuffy, the kids at the back of you is kicking up a fuss, the kid at the front of you is choughing all over the place, theres several hotties to your left , to your right theres that asshole jerk who really upset you last week, you just remembered on the way back home you've got to get some food in from the shops, and you must remember to speak to brother so and so about this that and the other, and also you need to remind sister example about that stuff, shit!
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The Quiet One
I found this hilarious, great post! If I had a penny for every time I've noticed someone staring ahead blankly during a talk, not picking up their Bible when a scriptures going to be read, and then suddenly coming out of the trance and rapidly flicking to it.. Or when people yawn, glance quite obviously at the clock, then suddenly start clapping when they realise that everybody else is.. There was a kid in our congregation who used to sleep through the talk, then he'd sit up and start clapping when the applause woke him up! As to your question, I think that when people are hearing talk outlines they've heard many times before about things they already know and can't seriously criticise, it's safe to say less than 100% for many, unless they're taking notes to keep themselves awake. I think that the most attention will be given, in general, at the beginning of a talk. People have only just sat down from the song and have just been talking to others before the meeting started. Plus most speakers will set off with an illustration, news item, or quote. Then attention will begin to drift away as some realise they know where the talk is going and can predict at least half of the handfull of scriptures to be used. Some might return mentally when the guilt-trip portion towards the end of the talk mentions their favourite hobby/film/aspect of life, and why they shouldn't do it.. Also, for young mothers, I'd say less than 50%. And elders/MS's? Less than that, some of them are up and down more than the children..
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Why haven't more JWs noticed the WTS false prophecy?
by Chemical Emotions ini haven't found anything to show that they have, except in the reasoning book, they admit say this:.
"jehovah's witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets.
they have made mistakes.
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The Quiet One
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/jehovahs-prophet.php ''IDENTIFYING THE"PROPHET" These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but wasa body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a"prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record.? Thus this group ofanointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the"prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom." Watchtower 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them' '' ""All True Christians ARE Prophets. The New American Bible correctly states: "Prophet means 'one who speaks for another,' especially for God. It does not necessarily mean that he predicts the future!" ? You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses." Awake! 1986 June 8 p. 9"
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Stupid suggestion from Study Conductor
by roxanesophia inhi everyone, first i just want to say if it wasn't this forum, i'd be baptized!
i haven't managed to successfully end my studies with a zealous jw.
she uses everything against me to brainwash me into believing i need the org.
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The Quiet One
''Then she read a scripture where Jesus says anyone who leaves family to follow him gains more family. "But he didn't say to treat family as if they are dead, either." She went quiet and said"God has an arrangement in place so we follow that." -- You did brilliantly with the entire conversation from what you've told us, but this was a highlight for me. You used logic, based on her own source (what Jesus said), in a way she couldn't argue with. And the best way that she could reply was essentially 'I don't think for myself about what the Bible says, I just obey an organisation'. You may well have no idea at this point how often a similar idea is expressed in the organisation, in different ways. "Just wait on Jehovah for an answer", or 'stop asking questions the org can't answer' in effect. Or "That doesn't seem right, but we just have to obey the elders". The 'do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man..' scripture isn't fully applied by your average jw. Anyway, well done! I could never be as brave and articulate when talking to another jw as you were. Enjoy your freedom.
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God exists? God doesn't? God is a different concept? Convince me!
by punkofnice ini am in a spiritual void at the moment after a year out of the borg and 50 years in.. i'd like to hear 'brief' evidence for the existance or non existance of god/s without an argument between members here.. i'd like to get fresh view points as mine is now so critical it's telling me to be an agnostic or atheist.
why?
i am in want of evidence, not just words from a copy/paste troll & no links.. i just want to open up to new possibilities but with evidence to support it not just 'faith'..
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The Quiet One
Hi punkofnice. You've left the Watchtower, nobody can prove anything to you/tell you what to believe anymore. All I can do is share with you my viewpoint. The way that I see it, there are many reasons to believe in creation, such as our bodies that can enjoy life in ways that seem unnecessary for survival, or are inefficient in terms of merely surviving to pass on our genes. Also, as you hinted at, if we can't build a house without planning/organising, how can complex living beings have come about by chance, without an intelligient force to guide them into existence? On the other hand, scientific evidence exists for evolution, in parts if not the whole process, and one thing that always bothered me is why a God would have invented viruses/cancers etc that would kill people/animals in various nasty ways? Between seeing no evidence that there is a God that STILL cares about us, not seeing any evidence for believing we have evolved in a way that doesn't need a guiding hand in a sense, and seeing what I feel is evidence that spirits exist (not going into this, but it involves people I have known being given info they could not have possibly known involving specific things), I have come to my current stance on everything:agnosticism whilst hoping that there is a God/being who cares.. I believe that there are/have been intelligient guiding forces in the universe of some kind, and I see our bodies as a gift that can lead to happiness and joy we could never deserve. But there is no reason to believe, IMHO, based on evidence, that the Biblical God or a God who loves us exists. I wish that this wasn't so, I have nothing to gain from this view.. This is what it comes down to, for me- A loving God would want the WHOLE world to know what is happening on the earth, what has happened, and why, and even if temporary suffering is necessary for some reason (best-case scenario I can think of), he/she/it would give us hope that it would end (think of a child of yours going into surgery). That's without going into various issues such as God not replying to prayers/not helping people etc.. The only religious text that has been distributed worldwide, as far as I'm aware, is the Bible. So, ask yourself... Do you believe in the Bible as wholly unaltered, inspired by God, inerrant and trustworthy? If not, would a loving God leave us to suffer on a planet that is like a big rotating death-trap with the best hope being that we live to over 100 before dying in our sleep, without a hope based on some evidence? The only remaining theist option I can see is that this life is just a test, we can't know what's going on and we're not expected to, but then why are some people's tests shorter and/or easier than others? And why even believe that? I'm sure this hasn't helped..
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Hypocrisy
by The Quiet One inhttp://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/214645/1/hypocrites thought this might be an appropriate topic to post again in the scandal section, sorry if thats not allowed...
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The Quiet One
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/214645/1/Hypocrites Thought this might be an appropriate topic to post again in the scandal section, sorry if thats not allowed..
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Hypocrites..
by The Quiet One inhttp://www.watchtower.org/e/20000501/article_01.htm http://governingbodyletters.blogspot.com/2008/07/what-happened-in-malawi.html.
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Hypocrites..
by The Quiet One inhttp://www.watchtower.org/e/20000501/article_01.htm http://governingbodyletters.blogspot.com/2008/07/what-happened-in-malawi.html.
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The Quiet One
http://www.watchtower.org/e/19970101/article_01.htm "This does not mean, though, that he will qualify to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation. What are the Scriptural reasons for this? For one thing, an elder must be "self-controlled." (Titus 1:8) True, none of us have perfect self-control. (Romans 7:21-25) But a dedicated adult Christian who falls into the sin of child sexual abuse reveals an unnatural fleshly weakness. Experience has shown that such an adult may well molest other children. True, not every child molester repeats the sin, but many do. And the congregation cannot read hearts to tell who is and who is not liable to molest children again. (Jeremiah 17:9) Hence, Paul's counsel to Timothy applies with special force in the case of baptized adults who have molested children: "Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others." (1 Timothy 5:22) For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service." http://governingbodyletters.blogspot.com/2010/11/elders-can-hide-their-sins-andf-get.html
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Stupid suggestion from Study Conductor
by roxanesophia inhi everyone, first i just want to say if it wasn't this forum, i'd be baptized!
i haven't managed to successfully end my studies with a zealous jw.
she uses everything against me to brainwash me into believing i need the org.
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The Quiet One
I feel for you. I have a serious illness, I don't even have the strength to get up sometimes, and yet I was pressured into making it to an assembly. An elder counselled me on not getting to the previous assembly, so I tried to explain that I can't even last through the day and nobody would take me home during the lunch break because of parking problems. He read me the 'not forsaking gathering ourselves together' scripture and said that it was a command from Jehovah to get to the assembly. He said 'I know you're ill, but..' and then proceeded to recount the experience of some guy who was ill, couldn't get up, so people set up a bed for him with mirrors so he could still see the platform..I just bowed my head and accepted it. I dragged myself there, made myself ill for weeks from the exertion. Guess what? The elder wasn't there, he was ill !! Moral of the story is.. don't let others set standards for you that are higher than you can reach. If they were in your shoes, they probably wouldn't even live up to those standards. Besides, you're not even baptized, you are NOT UNDER THEIR AUTHORITY. If you, like me, are not good at face-to-face confrontation, I'd suggest telling your conductor over the phone, they have less power that way, because they're not in your space. Maybe even write down what you want to say, like 'I don't want to study with you any longer' or whatever you feel is polite and easiest to say, then say it and shut down the conversation. I hope that this helps..